About her Transparency - as an Artist, as a Person…

Before you start reading the first part of this article you should know that this interview took place long before Miss Harvey’s decision to leave the ABT Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis School - a fact that causes much more interest to it!

I always say that I am very lucky to have my work. It is a privilege and an honour to be able to watch and talk to so many that have been contributing so much to the world of Dance. To somehow be able to „pick up their brains". It is fascinating.

But it can also be nearly intimidating when you have an appointment with someone you have admired „just" your whole life, especially when we know that we belong to the same generation.

I must say that one of the most rewarding, relaxing and fulfilling experiences I have had while interviewing, took place just last September 20th while meeting one of my generation's idols: Cynthia Harvey.

After so many years admiring her work it was all of a sudden more than clear to me why audiences always fell in love with her – and still do while watching her videos – this American Prima-Ballerina who was the first one to share a principal position at the American Ballet Theatre and the Royal Ballet simultaneously – we will talk much more about this later.

It's all about her transparency. I am not talking about the meaning of transparency when people are simply exposed. I am talking about it in a much more subtle way. That low-profile naturalness, that special lightness of spirit and the humble, uncomplicated open way of “just being” that can only be associated with the truly talented, intelligent, sensitive. Qualities that are natural for someone like Cynthia. But at the same time qualities that may cause much envy on many other a person. Do you remember the title of Milan Kundera's wonderful book „Die unerträgliche Leichtigkeit des sein"? („The unbearable Lightness of Being"). Voilá, that's it, even though, because of its plot, it does not quite match what I have just described above... but it is still a wonderful title, which I could not help mentioning!

After greeting each other warmly – what a joy – we started quite uncomplicatedly and informally to chat... First, we discussed trivial things as the lockdowns but then, instinctively the themes began to change to the ones I was willing to discuss with her: Youth nowadays and how we “managed” to survive as children and teenagers without mobile phones, Social Media and the internet. Quite a theme!

„That's exactly what I was telling my students,” she said, “years ago you would have been on your own: you would have received a letter saying „The school is closed until further notice" and that'd be it! No online classes, nothing! So it is a blessing and a curse at the same time!"

“Talking about coincidences... That is exactly one of the points I would like so much to discuss with you!" and picking my mobile phone I just said „This! The young generation keep this in their hands all the time. It is so easy to see anything, everything here. We didn't have this luck (is it luck?) and thinking back to „our times" if we wanted to know or learn anything we had to go to the library, we had to get books, an Encyclopedia, ask questions and research until we found “it”... "

Cynthia smiles and adds immediately, as this memory still seems to be quite alive for her „My most difficult time was at my last year at the ABT School. At that time I was living at a residence for ladies, not at home... My day started quite early as school started at 8:15 in the morning and the first Ballet class was from 10 am until 2 pm. Then I went back to school and after school back to Ballet for one more class. By then the Libraries were closed - and there was no Library to go to on the weekends and this was just impossible! Of course, there was no Internet and I think I was the most miserable I had ever been. Speaking to my Mother on the phone on the weekend just once a week as we could not afford to speak more often to each other, I asked her „Could you look for this and that for me in the Encyclopedia?" and she said I am going to buy and send you one – I knew how expensive they were and just said „No, I'm going to be out of school soon" but I was miserable... You couldn't get the resource material unless I'd skip Ballet School or other classes. And that was not acceptable!"

„Speaking to this doctor the other day, " I said, „ he told me that this is one of the reasons of the (so-called) Alzheimer-disease nowadays (I see a great difference between Alzheimer and Dementia caused by age): In „our days" it was so difficult to get the information you needed, that when you at last found it, you „saved it" in your brain – who needs to remember anything now? I mean, if you don't remember it, you google for it again... so there's no „training" for the brain anymore, for the grey cells like Hercule Poirot would say... „

„It's the same with phone numbers, I think! It is surely great when they are stored when you need them fast but I try to remember numbers. It is helpful to keep „going"!" she laughs.

„That's a good thing...But dear Cynthia, let's get down memory lane... Please think of any role you want and think of how your creative process was while RECREATING a role... Roles you had danced before... „

„Once I had already danced a role, once I had not to think so much about the technique and its demands, I could get more into the characterization. Much more. This could make it more fun depending on “who” the character was. It could be more fun to focus on that... For me, the difficulty in my mind on those days was stamina – can I get through it? I always thought - and I think this is a curse for people who are notoriously “thrown in” at the last minute. That was my fate from the beginning of my career. Somebody would, for any reason, go off and everybody would turn to me" she laughs „Then I would get through the performance but normally the second time was worse – because then you knew what to expect! The first time you dance a role you were thrown into, you have no time to prepare. The second time, when you're prepared, you know how hard things can be, physically – then came the worries about the stamina... But also, you wish to „add" more to your performance. I think it is difficult and probably more difficult for a younger dancer, not to rely on what might have worked before... „

„I don't quite understand, Cynthia... „

„For example, if you get a response for something, to not just think „I want to do that again because it seemed to be successful, to work". It is either successful in your own mind or you got a response from your colleagues or somebody else backstage! So, for me, the difficulty was to keep it spontaneous... that was for me probably my hardest challenge!"

All of a sudden I catch myself thinking of how these wise words do not apply only to the ballet but to life itself...

„I think this applies to any role, especially during a Season when you are repeating a Ballet over and over again – so when I was recreating a role and dancing it every other night it was hard not rely on the „tried and tested ways" of doing things and at the same time keeping it spontaneous. That was difficult. But usually, if you get a role a second time, it means that technique was not the issue!" she smiles „They just wouldn't give it to you a second time, if they'd think you couldn't get through it – For me, it was surely more pleasurable to be able to delve into something from another point of view. The first time, when you learn it, you have to absorb it into your body, learn the steps and the second and future times, you have the feeling that „it's still there". Your muscles have the memory of doing it. During this process, you first add layers to the role and then start peeling them away to find the character's essence... !”

„That's nice" - I love such images!

„The funny is, the more I did that, the more stripped-down, pure and simple it became. Less „baroque"; I mean with less extraneous things added on top!” she says moving her hands in the air more or less on top of her head in a way that made me think of Maria Berenson's huge hairdos on Kubrick's “Barry Lyndon”. Images.

D.Q. with Anthony Dowell. Copyright: Martha Swope

„If I am not mistaken, your first „Kitri" was with Sir Anthony Dowell, is this right?"

„That's correct"

„And it was a completely new role for you at the time... „

„Yes... I had been thrown on for one act. It was April Fool's day, I remember. The ballet had already premiered for a bit of time. I was doing one of the two flower girls in the initial production - and then we were in Washington D.C. at the Kennedy Center and it seems that the only Ballerina left standing was Gelsey (Kirkland) – Cynthia Gregory and Martine van Hamel somehow hurt themselves – and there was no one around who could do the whole ballet, so they gave me „Act II" - which I didn't know... I had done the Pas de Deux with Fernando Bujones, I think in 1979, in Japan. So I did Act 2 and Marianna Tcherkassky did Acts 1 and 3. This was also because Misha (Baryshnikov) and Gelsey couldn't do all performances. They threw me into that but it was only for one show."

„How crazy!" I have to say.

„Yes! Jürgen Schneider, the ballet master, took me, Patrick Bissell and a couple of others aside and said, „You know, I think you should learn this". He knew that we'd not be cast but it'd be better to be on the safe side because of this kind of incident (Injuries). There were no official rehearsals but we'd watch, stand in the back and watch more and learn. Then later in 1979, the ballet came back at the Met Season that we had then in New York” she somehow sighs, remembering, “Anthony Dowell was still with us and was supposed to do Basil with Natalia Makarova. I don't know what happened but all of a sudden he requested me – that was amazing, simply amazing - my first full-length!"

„Wow... „

„I had been in the ballet in other parts before, so it was not as if I didn't know the ballet BUT I had never really done it... We were just back from a vacation and I was dancing a lot that season: Myrtha for the first time, Kitri for the first time, a lot of „heavy ballets"... So coming back from a holiday was a big shock to my body but with Anthony Dowell, it was such a joy... He made it so pleasurable, never once making me feel as if I was anything other than „equal" to those other Ballerinas – which I certainly wasn't, not at that time. I think I was 22. He gave me a break and that gave me attention that I didn't necessarily have before and then Miss Chase, Lucia Chase, considered moving me up... „

„And what impresses me a lot, Cynthia, is that in just a few sentences you mentioned Bujones, Tcherkassky, Gelsey, Misha, van Hammel, Bissell, Cynthia Gregory, Sir Anthony Dowell, Makarova... Those were the days and it sounds like a „who's who" in the Ballet world. Everyone I love!"

She smiles very broadly and says „ I know – and I love them too! It was like I was scratching my way up, slowly... and because I was so green – you know I came from a very small town in California – I had not been a competition dancer nor out there very much. , so I was learning as I was going on... step by step... well, it took me 8 years to go from the Corps de Ballet to be a principal. People kept telling me that I had had such a fast rise but it wasn't like that. Eight years is not „quick". And especially not when you think of others who are now promoted quite quickly without the experience of dancing full evening works. I did SEVEN full-lengths before I was promoted. And that shows how green I was and that I was not that experienced: I needed that time!"

And while she was talking I was just observing, once more that incredible humbleness, that kept her with a low profile. But such a well-structured, beautiful low-profile. Suavity combined with incredible strength – I love this „mélange"!

I was so fascinated that I could only utter „yes!"

„I think it is important to mention that! You know, there are so many talents out there that are so prodigious. I know they feel they should be given the roles immediately – because they are technically capable – but there is something that “happens” when you're a little more mature. One can handle Stress better. For me, for example, I had no eating disorder, I didn't have temper tantrums in public because I could handle what was coming to me, as it was coming. And I learned the ballets „from the inside". So when I finally got to do those principal roles like in „Giselle", „Swan Lake" even „Kitri", I had done many other parts and if – and this happened – I didn't get a stage-call (Note: Stage Rehearsal), I already knew where everybody was supposed to be on stage while I was doing the lead. Now I hear things like „We had a whole week of stage calls" and I say „wow, I would have loved that but that is SUCH a luxury!”. If you're in a ballet, in other parts, from the beginning, you don't worry about that! You know where everyone is supposed to be"

„That little thing called “Experience”... Isn't it marvellous? Knowing the ballets so well „inside out"?" I ask, once more, completely fascinated by such an interesting talk!

„Yes! And you appreciate it! And because I spent 4 and half years in the Corps de Ballet, let me tell you, nobody appreciates it more than I do" she laughs „I was the first girl in „La Bayadére" (Note: second act „Kingdom of Shades") and on those days we toured for 17 weeks: so my left „bottom cheek" was quite sore from all those arabesques – but when I finally got to do Gamzatti I had an appreciation & respect of what Nikyia and Solor are going through in the ballet... „

Swan Lake with Baryshnikov. Copyright: Mira

„And that reminds of a question I have written down: We are talking about the ABT's repertoire which included (just) La Baydère's second Act but I do remember that when later Makarova was „resurrecting" the whole ballet that the World of Dance world was „mad" to know what was going to happen – you were the first Gamzatti in Makarova's staging of this historical ballet, weren't you?"

„Yes" she laughs out loud „ and that was not a very popular decision... „

„Why? Because you are a completely different character than this „not so nice Lady called Gamzatti"?" I ask now extremely curious

„I have to say that it is a terrible thing for a dancer to have to hear that people don't think you should be dancing a role – not only critics – but somehow, I couldn't blame them... By that time I had only done Kitri, a completely different character, and I think that Anthony Dowell wanted me to do Gamzatti. I think my height made it easier for him to partner me and other Ballerinas who were more correct or better for the role were a bit too big for him – and, I remember, he had a shoulder issue at the time – so even if he could have partnered these girls, he didn't want to – and Natasha wanted him for the Première anyway. So Sorry, Folks! You got me!" she adds jokingly (And I keep thinking: „How I love people with a real sense of humour, who can also laugh about themselves... but there was (much) more to be added to this Story!). She worked so much with me, so thoroughly, so much to the point when she later on even asked me to help stage the ballet on one occasion – To be honest with you, I would love to do that again or at least help her with it if it ever came to that – but the truth is that I didn't have a clue as to that kind of person. I didn't have „jealousy" in my emotional „arsenal": I wasn't raised to be jealous of other people: I was raised to be as good as I could be – of course, I looked up to the Makarovas, Cynthia Gregorys and Gelsey Kirklands and admired them but it wasn't jealousy; we were all very different physically and the best is yet to come, imagine, I didn't have a love life at 22 years old. All I cared about was ballet, ballet, ballet and then I was given this multi-dimensional role... I was lucky to have Natasha to inspire me but the extra push was that I wanted to do it so well FOR HER – to make it a success for HER and while she worked with me she gave me so many „images" - just watching her was amazing – but,” she smiles “do you remember at the time the TV show called „Dynasty"?"

La Bayadère with Makarova. Copyright: Martha Swope

I think it funny that she pronounces it the British way, „Deenasty", and get even more curious about what she was going to tell me now...

„Do you remember Joan Collins' character „Alexis Carrington" against the Linda Evans' character „Chrystle"? That kind of very 80s jealousy, social-climbing, bitchiness... I thought, uhmm, „I could use this" for my characterization"

By this time I am laughing so much but she continues „Natasha used to talk to me „Haven't you ever been jealous?" but I never responded to that – I would instead be in tears and go home crying. First I didn't want to embarrass myself in front of her and didn't want her to think I wasn't up to the task. And searching for a way to develop this role... Alexis: she was the clue to my Gamzatti!"

„This is incredible! I love it!" I say and, to be quite honest, already wondering how fun it'd be to put this on paper and preserve this incredibly funny story! „I love that – so much humour – especially because jealousy and envy are two emotions I am honestly afraid of – I always think of „Salieri vs. Mozart" - These are emotions that I, thank God, also have never felt"

„I was very lucky that in my ballet school in California – which was not big – I had never felt that about anybody and when I came to Ney York, even getting the roles I got, I had the support of the Corps de Ballet – they even sent me a bouquet for my first full-length. At that time there had been no promotions within the company. Lucia Chase, at the time, was pulling dancers from all around the world so I was the first dancer from the company who was promoted in years and this gave the Corps some hope, which was great. I had their support. ABT is like a family, nobody wishes anyone ill. It is all about ballet. Not about us. And I still feel this way today. It's not about the individual ego but the whole. And about the institution, you're dancing for. It was the same when I did „Swan Lake" with the Royal Ballet with Anthony in his production... But back to Gamzatti: once I got „that issue" over with, as time progressed... oh, that Ballet, I got to love it so... I would love to do Gamzatti NOW, at the least just the mime scenes... „ she laughs again.

Coaching La Bayadère. Copyright: Royal Ballet of Flandres

„Well, Gamzatti was a character you created for the first time, we have also talked about characters you have danced a lot, like Kitri... is there something which you would do differently nowadays? The ways of viewing a character can change a lot throughout the years, don't you think? I keep thinking of how, with the passing of the years, Misha's interpretation of Albrecht has changed from a blue-eyed dreamy boy into a cynical playboy..."

„ I think for me it'd be Giselle. You spoke of Misha and the change in his interpretation. For me, it is different. When I first did Giselle, the „burden" of respect that I had for the ballet and for those who were in it before me, influenced me too much and instead of finding my way, I relied on other people's suggestions... you know, „Carla Fracci did this", „Makarova does that", „Gelsey does this". I would try to do what „they" did and I stayed in that way for a long time and I think that if I could do it now – which physically would be amazing -with the baggage of Knowledge and Experience I've got now, I would be very different. I would be a lot freer. I would still want to stay within the style - I am talking more about Act One but also about Act two- but I feel that I didn't touch enough the spiritual part of act two. I also think that in Act one I was trying to be too pretty, not real enough. Without having a good feeling of what I looked like to the public – I never really used videos to study myself – it was more a question of what „I felt right", and what „feels right" is not necessarily what „is right" for the dancer. I would have liked to be a little bit more „free", a little bit more earthy, a little bit less trying to be stylized „pretty" and especially a little freer in where I went with the mad scene... It is hard to describe it without being able to do it physically. I loved to watch Alessandra Ferri: she never „repeated" a performance – perhaps she'd say that there are things that she would have liked to do differently but for me, she attained in Act One what I would have liked to have attained. That I would love to do if I could go back in time... „